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Toradoradi
03-25-2011, 11:16 AM
Maybe the numbers aren’t statistically significant enough, and with no long-term data we can’t really assess the risk properly. But in one study of 11,813 girls receiving the Gardasil vaccine, 2 developed rheumatoid arthritis, 5 developed arthritis, 1 developed reactive arthritis, and 1 developed juvenile arthritis.

In the control group of similarly-aged young girls, all of whom received placebo shots also containing aluminum, 1 recipient developed lupus and 2 developed arthritis.

Merck has been widely criticized for its use of a placebo containing the same adjuvant as the vaccine instead of a placebo containing a non-reactive saline. Such a practice can mask adverse reactions—although in this case a 3-fold increased risk of auto-immune disease nevertheless became apparent—and aluminum has been associated with nerve cell death.

Multiple cases of the autoimmune disorder Guillain-Barré syndrome arising after vaccination with Gardasil have been reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (it is estimated that less than 10 percent of adverse events are actually reported to VAERS). The CDC, however, has concluded that at least so far there is no evidence that Gardasil increases the risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome.

Heads also swiveled last year over the story of Jenny, a young girl who developed a mystery
case of ALS, motor-neuron disease, after vaccination with Gardasil. Sadly, she was far from the only headline-grabbing "was-it-Gardasil" story.

Incidence of autoimmune disease in general is rising. “Autoimmune disease is a multimillion dollar market set to increase as world prevalence rates rise and the population lives longer,” reported BioPortfolio, rather gleefully.

Roughly eight percent, predominantly women, of people in the US currently suffer various autoimmune diseases that, according to the Lancet, “arise in genetically predisposed individuals but require an environmental trigger.”

Women considering the Gardasil vaccine might want to take hereditary factors into account first.

‘As examples, Dr. Harper (Dr. Diane Harper, who was involved in Gardasil’s clinical trials) mentioned family history of motor neuron disease or autoimmune diseases, which could affect how the person reacts to the vaccine,’ wrote medical journalist Zosia Chustecka. ‘She illustrated this point by saying: "Salt does not usually kill anybody, but for a person with congestive heart failure, it could lead to fatal pulmonary edema, so you could say that salt caused their death, as it was the last straw that broke the camel's back."’

That seems like a fairly balanced approach to does-it-doesn't-it-cause-auto-immune-disease questions. If you really want to protect against the strains of HPV that cause 70% of cervical cancers, and you’re not willing to count on regular Pap smears to protect you, take a look at your family history before undergoing Gardasil’s three shots. Check for incidence of MS, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis and so on, and then decide.

What do you think? Could Gardasil be a trigger for auto-immune diseases? Does autoimmune disease count as a side-effect of a vaccine if it was triggered by the vaccine rather than caused by it; or if it appears outside the time-frame considered by the CDC? Should we worry about the combined effect of the ever-increasing number of recommended or mandatory vaccines?

ritzbit
03-25-2011, 11:40 AM
I think that in the cases that I've read about women who have developed auto-immune problems from Gardasil were very severe. It wasn't a slow progressing kind of thing, with the stories I read anyway. Very sudden reactions that happened within days of the vaccine. I think that those people must have had a predispostion to auto-immune problems to have such a strong reaction to the vaccine. I had this vaccine and it was before my diagnosis but I don't think it caused me to have lupus. I think that like every other vaccine we receive this one has risks, and that there is clearly a risk of having an auto-immune response to it and that patients should be aware of it. I think vaccines are a good thing but people need to be aware of all possible side effects just as with any medication.

tgal
03-25-2011, 11:56 AM
I read all the data before deciding if I wanted my daughter to have it. It does show a slight rise in AI diseases but honestly there is a rise in AI diseases in all walks of life. My daughter began having issues when she was 6 or 7, long before the shot itself. After looking at the data for the shot I began looking at what her life may hold if I don't get it for her. A life with a VD that could leave her childless and possibly getting cancer if that VD is left untreated. The risk of AI diseases is already in my daughter. I can't change that. I can protect her from someone giving her another disease on top of this one. Luckily my daughter is being watched by the top children's rhuemy in Houston so any problems can be dealt with quickly which may mean her never getting to the point that I am. I am being proactive on the Ai issues and I felt that giving her the shot was another way to be proactive with her health.

I do understand why some are worried but there have always been some issues and dangers when new vaccines are created. I could be wrong but I decided to err on the side of caution and give her the vaccine.

Hope that made sense and didn't sound preachy! I really can understand those that are not for it and I respect those views completely!

Toradoradi
03-25-2011, 12:59 PM
Yeah I totally understand the views of everyone. I think that either way be it vaccines or anything we put into our bodies if we're going to get it we're going to get it regardless. I just found the article interesting since I started getting really bad hives soon after I got the first shot and then everything has gone down hill from there. It could have been that that triggered it for me or it could have been a number of other things. I was probably going to get it down the road from something or the other anyways. I am finding alot of my family has AI disease ranging from cealiacs disease (sp?), fibro, autoimmune deficiency (whatever that is) and a number of other ones. So I was probably bound for it at some point. I think the vaccine could have contributed to it now rather then later in life but who really knows. I jus don't like new medications that haven't been out for a long period of time because they don't know the long term. But I really do hope it can be beneficial to this generation.

rob
03-25-2011, 03:45 PM
Tori,

Doing research, and deciding for yourself what is fact, and what is bunk, is a good thing. But, I would just warn you that much of what you read online that has an "alarmist" tone, is neither truthful, nor accurate. The internet is filled with people who are willing to push a certain dishonest and unfounded point of view in order to sell a product. People will propagate lies through false accusations against faceless, nameless groups and conspiracies that in reality, don't exist.

There are some incredibly persuasive people out there who would like to convince as many people as they can that their theory, that their special, supposedly unknown to the rest of the world pieces of knowledge and information, are the only pathway to a healthy, and disease free life. None of these people are qualified to speak about the subjects which they address. If they were simply janitors, it would'nt be a big deal, but these people speak as though they are an authority on the most basic, most important thing that anyone can posess-Our own health, and our own body.

Ask these people what the ultimate goal of their writings about vaccines really is. I think you'll find, when you finally corner them, that the end result is they tell you that you have to buy some expensive juice, follow some inane diet, or otherwise spend your money, time, and most importantly, your health, on something that will in the end do nothing more than make yet another charlatan and fraud more money, and give the people they profess to care so much about, absolutely nothing.

Rob

tgal
03-25-2011, 06:38 PM
Tori,

Doing research, and deciding for yourself what is fact, and what is bunk, is a good thing. But, I would just warn you that much of what you read online that has an "alarmist" tone, is neither truthful, nor accurate. The internet is filled with people who are willing to push a certain dishonest and unfounded point of view in order to sell a product. People will propagate lies through false accusations against faceless, nameless groups and conspiracies that in reality, don't exist.

There are some incredibly persuasive people out there who would like to convince as many people as they can that their theory, that their special, supposedly unknown to the rest of the world pieces of knowledge and information, are the only pathway to a healthy, and disease free life. None of these people are qualified to speak about the subjects which they address. If they were simply janitors, it would'nt be a big deal, but these people speak as though they are an authority on the most basic, most important thing that anyone can posess-Our own health, and our own body.

Ask these people what the ultimate goal of their writings about vaccines really is. I think you'll find, when you finally corner them, that the end result is they tell you that you have to buy some expensive juice, follow some inane diet, or otherwise spend your money, time, and most importantly, your health, on something that will in the end do nothing more than make yet another charlatan and fraud more money, and give the people they profess to care so much about, absolutely nothing.

Rob

Psst... Torri. Wanna get on Rob's good side? Find one of these folks and point them out to Rob so he can "play" with them LOL

Back to the topic at hand. I think we all go through a phase of wondering "what did this to us'. Did I eat something I shouldn't have? Was it the chemicals in the nail salon that I went in every 2 weeks? Did I swim in a nuclear pond? LOL.. It is natural. This is such a random disease and and we have so few answers it is natural for us to search anywhere for something, ANYTHING that will explain what has happened to us. Rob is correct though. Too many people prey on us by saying they have the "New Cure For Lupus" or "The Diet to cure AI Diseases". Those people are the worst of the worst because they hit us when we hurt and are looking for anything that gives us an anwer.

Toradoradi
03-25-2011, 11:13 PM
Rob,
I don't think the point of the article was to sell anything or tell me what I need to do or how I should eat a certain food I simple think the article was someone presenting an opinion based on the findings that they researched. It wasn't the only article stating what that one did it just happened to be the one I posted. I do think slot of the things that happen to our bodies have to do with what we put into them and the things that are shoved upon us in our society. I'm not saying everything single thing a person says or writes is true but I do believe their are valid facts to what people have to say. Whether everything is true or not I don't know but there are valid points. People are in fact inititled to their opinions and debates about things and I for one am not going to corner them and ask them the reason why they wrote what they did or do what they do, if I didn't think the article had merits to some extent I wouldn't have posted it. Not everyone that writes everything istrying to con you into buyig a miracle cure for something or tell you how to live. But then again this is just my experience and my opinion and I posted this because I felt it related to me in some way even if it wasn't what caused mento get lupus.

rob
03-26-2011, 05:45 AM
Oh, don't mind me Tori. I tend to be grouchy, and I rant from time to time. (smiley face)

Rob

Toradoradi
03-26-2011, 03:25 PM
Lol it's ok. I was grouchy last night too so sorry if my post came off rude or something. I had a long night and tend to get bitchy when I'm tired. Hope I didn't offend you or anything!

rob
03-27-2011, 07:05 AM
Lol it's ok. I was grouchy last night too so sorry if my post came off rude or something. I had a long night and tend to get bitchy when I'm tired. Hope I didn't offend you or anything!

Not at all Tori, as matter of fact, I respect, and like your rather fiesty nature! You're not afraid of making your opinions and thoughts known, and that's a good thing!

Rob

craftkeeper
03-27-2011, 11:45 AM
Hey Rob, i was just reading your post about people who suddenly becone experts in things they no nothing about. I have a lady on my face book, connected by a Art Doll Guild that we both belong to,who has suddenly gained all knowledge about some sort of starch eaters diet by some Mcdoogle guy that is supposed to cure anything.. She has just informed everyone that is diabetic on the page to eat all of the potatoes that they can get their hands on, because the doctors are wrong about it. My mother was a severe diabetic and i know better, but i let her rant. She has been on this special diet for about five months and now preachs his theory constantly. She made a statement not to long ago that she truly believed M.S and other chronic disease would be cured if we would all follow this diet. Before i defriend her, would you like to go to my facebook and rip her a new one? LOL


Before anyone thinks that i'm saying there's no benefit to her diet ,i'm not..and as far as trying alternate methods if they are available i'm all for it. My Grandmother was somewhat of a herbalist and growing up we used alot of her remedies for this and that. I know alot of the medications we use today are derived from these herbs. I myself grow all of my own herbs and still do my home remedies, but i always check with my Pharmacist before i take a new medication to see if there are any contradictions with the herb mixtures i take. Of course my remedies are for things like earache,sore throat and so on. I've always been interested in the old mountain cures, it's kind of a hobby i guess.. yeah i'm weird i know my kids tell me that all the time

tgal
03-27-2011, 11:55 AM
Hey Rob, i was just reading your post about people who suddenly becone experts in things they no nothing about. I have a lady on my face book, connected by a Art Doll Guild that we both belong to,who has suddenly gained all knowledge about some sort of starch eaters diet by some Mcdoogle guy that is supposed to cure anything.. She has just informed everyone that is diabetic on the page to eat all of the potatoes that they can get their hands on, because the doctors are wrong about it. My mother was a severe diabetic and i know better, but i let her rant. She has been on this special diet for about five months and now preachs his theory constantly. She made a statement not to long ago that she truly believed M.S and other chronic disease would be cured if we would all follow this diet. Before i defriend her, would you like to go to my facebook and rip her a new one? LOL


Before anyone thinks that i'm saying there's no benefit to her diet ,i'm not..and as far as trying alternate methods if they are available i'm all for it. My Grandmother was somewhat of a herbalist and growing up we used alot of her remedies for this and that. I know alot of the medications we use today are derived from these herbs. I myself grow all of my own herbs and still do my home remedies, but i always check with my Pharmacist before i take a new medication to see if there are any contradictions with the herb mixtures i take. Of course my remedies are for things like earache,sore throat and so on. I've always been interested in the old mountain cures, it's kind of a hobby i guess.. yeah i'm weird i know my kids tell me that all the time

Perfect post! Trying new things is fine but yes, you have to run it by the doc to make sure there will be no problems with other meds. Thanks for that post!

craftkeeper
03-27-2011, 12:57 PM
Thanks Tgal. I have a couple of dear friends that will go out and buy every new herb or supplement mixture that they can find if someone publishes an article that it will cure something. Even ailments they dont have,as long as it is natural or holistic. They take prescription meds at the same time without asking their doctor and it's just a matter of time. We grow castor beans in our gardens, which is a natural remedie for moles. Little buggers hate em and they are great Natural pest control. But castor beans are also used to make the deadly nerve gas Ricin. Nature can kill you if you dont know what you are doing. I've been with my Pharmacy along time and they are really great to check things out for me and my doctor [ who is very young] laughs right in my face sometimes, but we seem to have found a way to meet each other in the middle.

rob
03-27-2011, 02:37 PM
Before anyone thinks that i'm saying there's no benefit to her diet ,i'm not..and as far as trying alternate methods if they are available i'm all for it. My Grandmother was somewhat of a herbalist and growing up we used alot of her remedies for this and that. I know alot of the medications we use today are derived from these herbs. I myself grow all of my own herbs and still do my home remedies, but i always check with my Pharmacist before i take a new medication to see if there are any contradictions with the herb mixtures i take. Of course my remedies are for things like earache,sore throat and so on. I've always been interested in the old mountain cures, it's kind of a hobby i guess.. yeah i'm weird i know my kids tell me that all the time

Oh, believe me, there are definite advantages to sticking to a proper, balanced diet. And yes, there are some powerful, and sometimes helpful natural substances and home remedies that can help us get through various health problems (my mom's old mustard-plasters come to mind). But, there is absolutely no diet on this Earth that will cure either my SLE, or my MS.

There are certainly things we should not eat, like alfalfa sprouts. Or like in Tori's case, she's allergic to Ascorbic Acid, which is not uncommon in people with Lupus. My mother, a few years after she was diagnosed with SLE, suddenly found herself unable to eat apples, or anything containing apples. Too bad, because she loves them, and used to make the finest apple pie I've ever tasted. They will now put her into a flare from hell. With me, it's walnuts. Anything with walnuts will make my mouth break out in the worst sores you've ever seen. Wasn't that way before Lupus.

But, I know how you feel about the "sudden experts", as I call them. They used to piss me off because I would meet people who wanted to play expert in a highly technical and potentially dangerous business for which I studied many years to be able to do safely. In the world of smallarms design there is no room for mistakes, yet so many guys watch a couple of war movies, do some silly internet course, and think they are suddenly experts, sometimes with tragic results.

I guess the reason I really rail against the fraud diets and so-called cures, is that I have seen people newly diagnosed and scared, get roped in to these dangerous scams, end up stopping their plaquenil or other meds, and end up with permanent organ damage, or worse. A person in my local MS support group got fooled into this, and ended up both broke, and then dead. She stopped all of her real meds on the advice of one of these "experts". It's just heartbreaking, and infuriating at the same time. I won't sit by and let that happen if I can help it. It's not that I want to tell others how to live, or how to treat their disease. Heaven knows I certainly don't let people tell me how to live. I just don't want to see someone make an avoidable mistake, get ripped off, or worse.

Anyway, that's a bit of what makes me tick. And yeah, I do rant from time to time, and I like the old soapbox too. Such is life!

Rob

PS-If I ever get too grouchy, just tell me to give it a frakking break. Trust me, it works-Karen does it all the time!

lovehubby
03-27-2011, 02:53 PM
I have been told by more then one Doctor that if there was a cure for Lupus someone would be very rich so watch out for all the fraud out there because there is alot of it

craftkeeper
03-27-2011, 03:05 PM
Rant on Rob. It always makes me feel better.LOL. Honestly i dont know why i let this lady get to me other then the fact that in a few months she can cure the world and i couldn't do it. UGH

Toradoradi
03-27-2011, 04:35 PM
Rob, I would rant more but I type on here from my iPhone so I get annoyed with it to easily to rant... Maybe that's a good thing in my case?? Lol I don't know. I'm scared to think what would happen if I did type on a computer! My rants may end up longer then yours!
My mom is really into the naturilistic way of doing things and is buying a book on "lupus diets" and things and she wants me to see an herbalist or something instead. "because being on mess for the rest of your life is not a good thing" my reply to her is "dying within the next ten years because I didn't want to be on pills forever is also not a good thing" but what do I know? I'm just the daughter who doesn't have a clue... I know she means well but it is a bit frustration to have to explain to her time and time again what is going on and why I need to do what I'm doing now. I think I'll be doing pretty good if the only thing it takes to get this under control is plaquinel. But I know that's not the case for most so we shall see. She just doesn't understand it and it scares her. I'm hoping she picked a book up on just what lupus is and what it does to the body so she can understand better and get what it's doing to me and forget all the other stuff she's trying to push on me... That would be ideal. We'll see though.