View Full Version : Negative ANA
05-18-2005, 03:02 PM
Ok, I guess I'm confused :roll:
I got the lab results, doc says that my ANA is negative so it cannot be Lupus.
I thought that you could get a negative and still have Lupus.
Is this true, that a negative ANA means absolutely no Lupus?
She also didn't think that the rash on my face was the butterfly
and those "blood bumps" are common for everyone as we age.
06-02-2005, 06:07 AM
The ANA antibody tests must be accompanied by symptoms, since antibodies alone, with no symptoms, do not diagnose the disease. If you have symptoms plus diagnostic antibodies or biopsy proof of Lupus, then you will probably be diagnosed with SLE. Most diagnoses report anti-DNA antibody in about half of patients, anti-Sm in about one-third, and ANA in 87-94% of patients with unequivocal SLE.
When a person satisfies the criteria for systemic lupus erythematosus (lupus), but has a negative ANA, the condition is referred to as ANA-negative systemic lupus erythematosus. ANAs are negative in approximately 5% of patients with lupus. In these patients, frequently there are other antibody markers of lupus present, such as cardiolipin antibody, anti-smith antibody, DNA antibodies, and SS-A and SS-B antibodies.
95-98% of persons with lupus have a positive test for ANA. Therefore, less than 5% of people can have a negative ANA test, and still have lupus. Therefore, persons having some symptoms and signs suggestive of lupus, but with a negative ANA test, should be very carefully evaluated for a large number of conditions that can have a positive ANA test. These conditions which can mimic lupus and have a positive ANA test include mixed connective tissue disease, undifferentiated connective tissue disease, scleroderma, myositis, rheumatoid arthritis and several others. Some times, it may take a while before a clear diagnosis can be made, because evolution of the disease may take some time.
Lupus patients who have a negative ANA test usually have a positive test for anti-Ro (also called anti-SSA) or anti-La (anti-SSB).
Your doctor probably should look at the diagnosis of lupus if you have the presence of other criteria, such as `photosensitivity` with malar rash, because this is quite uncommon in other lupus-like `sister` diseases, also called autoimmune diseases. How was your urine protein level? Your tests should include a very careful urine microscopic examination for any red cells or red cell cast to detect involvement of kidney due to lupus or related disease. Also, it is very helpful to do some follow up urine tests.
Try to get as much information as you can about Lupus and even get in touch with local `Lupus Foundation` or `Arthritis Foundation`; they can provide some booklets and give references to small lay language books on lupus and related diseases.
Best Of Luck
Dr Hughes Uk leading lupus specialist states that 90% of Lupus sufferers are ANA positive. He diagnosed me with SLE, APS, and Sjogrens and I do not have an antibody to any of them. I have a high ESR.
But I have Thrombocytopaenia, Nephritis, High Blood Pressure, High Cholesterol, Dry Eyes, Hypothyroid.
I have Livedo Reticularis, Lost a baby had to have a hysterectomy.Got inflammatory Arthritis, lots of other symptoms and without steroids couldn't get out of a chair.
Don't be put off by negative bloods. It doesn't mean you haven't got it.
06-09-2005, 12:18 PM
I don't think they did a urine check. I am feeling extreme fatigue these days. I can hardly do anything. I have also had weight gain, which for me, is uncharacteristic. I normally have always weighed no more than 115 lds, even after having three children. Now I am 140 lbs, 5'4".
I heard that weight gain has now been added to the criteria.
Also, went out by the pool today with the kids for just about 20 min. I started getting this strange looking redness...not sunburn...it looked like sunburn with holes in it. webbing I guess?
weird. I used to get the small red bumps that itch.
Anyone had this strange looking rash?
06-12-2005, 05:15 PM
The rashes that occur after sun exposure in Lupus patients can vary, both in location on the body and in appearance. The reasons that rashes occur after sun exposure is complicated. A current theory, based on experimental evidence, is that UV light causes skin cells to express particular proteins on their surface. These proteins, including one called "Ro," may then be the targets of antibodies which latch on to them. The attached antibodies are thought to attract white blood cells which attack the skin cells, leading to the inflammation that causes the rash.
Normally, skin (and other) cells that are sufficiently damaged die through a process known as programmed cell death, or "apoptosis." The body then gets rid of the dead cells. But in lupus, apoptosis in the skin seems to occur more often than it should, which may in turn lead to more inflammation.
Another contributor to the lupus rash may be that too much of the inflammation-promoting substancenitric oxide is made in lupus skin after sun exposure. This then leads to further redness and inflammation.
The rashes usually shows up as many red, circular shapes on the chest, back and arms. They are often a little scaly, resembling psoriasis.
The rashes tends to heal over weeks or months and is usually non-scarring. However, they frequently come back after more sun exposure.
The most common Lupus rashes are:
The facial "butterfly rash" of systemic lupus erythematosus usually comes on after sun exposure and is associated with flares of the SLE itself. It usually occurs over the cheeks and nose (but can occur elsewhere) and usually heals without scarring within weeks.
Discoid lupus (DLE) refers to "disk-like" lesions which usually, but not always, occur in sun-exposed sites. These lesions develop slowly and heal over several months, often without scaring.
Subacute lupus (SCLE) is the other major type of specific skin lupus. It is highly photosensitive and usually takes the form of red, circular shapes on the chest, back and arms. It may also be quite scaly and resemble psoriasis. This type of skin lupus is particularly associated with autoantibodies in the blood to the Ro antigen that we mentioned above. SCLE tends to heal over weeks or months and is usually non-scarring.
DLE and SCLE may both occur on their own without SLE. However, SLE can develop in patients who start with DLE and SCLE, but it tends to be much milder illness than typical SLE.
Lupus patients are particularly susceptible to sunburn which may lead to "prolonged erythema" (redness). Sunlight may also cause the development of new lupus skin lesions (e.g. DLE and SCLE). Sunlight can also lead to flares of disease activity in SLE, including joint pains and fatigue. Finally, sunlight causes other skin diseases such as polymorphic light eruption (PLE or "prickly heat") which is usually fairly mild but very irritating and has recently demonstrated in 50% of lupus patients, compared with 15% of the general population.
I hope that I have provided some helpful information.
Peace and Blessings
Can I suggest any rashes or skin erruptions Take a photo coz you will never have the rash when you see a dr.
06-22-2005, 06:14 PM
What does a bipsy of lupus consist of? Is it like a skin scrape, do they look at it under a microscope?
Good idea Val, by the time you get an appointment the rash is gone!
No its a skin biopsy and mine had about three stitches in. I had it in my back. It took ages to heal--I don't heal well. Didn't prove anything,
06-23-2005, 06:20 AM
A biopsy is the removal of a sample of tissue from the body for examination. My biopsy consisted of removing a sample from a lupus lesion and removing a sample from an area of my body that rarely sees the sun (my butt). The tissues are examined under a microscope to assist in diagnosis. Therefore, only very small samples are needed.
The area is anesthetized and a small plug of skin is removed with a scalpel. Then the skin is sewn together again with a couple of stitches. This leaves a very small, almost invisible, scar.
It is a generally routine procedure in the diagnosis of Lupus, especially if you have skin manifestations
Peace and Blessings
I had my biopsy of healthy skin, to try to obtain a diagnosis as I am seronegative. I don't suffer with skin lesions only face.